I first saw this flag at the Tampa Confederate Park dedication last year. I was under the impression it was something that camp was doing, glad to see it is now an official flag.
Sadly, it was not accepted by the SCV (Mr. Lightfoot has all of the details) but the gentleman is going forward with the project and I, for one, support and praise him for his steadfastness.
How could you know? In any event, perhaps some pressure from the inside might get the SCV to reconsider. If their complaints are cosmetic, I might point out the the "regulation" POW/MIA flag is hardly the most artistically rendered banner either! It's the thought that counts.
i was at the national convention when they voted not to accept the flag. in fact, i was given a flag by those folks in honor of my ancestors who were pows. i wnt into the convention with an open mind concerning the flag. after hereing arguments from both sides, i made the desision to vote against the flag. the argument being made, that the battle flag was their flag. i was told that they may bring it up again at the next convention.
I may be talking out of line here (not having a horse in this race) but it would seem to me that POWs and those who just "disappeared" into some mass grave (if they were lucky) should receive a different kind of recognition from that accorded to regular soldiers who fought and died. The Battle Flag does represent all the soldiers, but it does not give special consideration to those whose deaths were often far worse and under far more heinous conditions than those who died - however painfully - on the battlefield and were acknowledged and given a decent burial whether by Confederates or Yankees.
It's one thing to fight and survive or fight and be wounded and suffer or die among your comrades and receive recognition for your bravery even as you close your eyes in death. It's quite another to be humiliated, tortured and die miles from home suffering abuse rather than honor, perhaps in your own vomit and excrement or under the lash or - as happened in at least one prison - tortured to amuse paying Yankee customers who came to watch "a rebel" being suitably punished.
If such a fate does not deserve an special acknowledgment, I, for one,cannot imagine what would!
It would be nice if there were some flag or symbol to recognize those who were in prisons or were buried in the field. Does anyone know if there's been a study on the ratio of soldiers who were POW's or KIA to those who mustered out at the end of the war with their unit? In just what digging I've done in my own family, it would probably be a staggering number. Just one example, My GGGrandfather was a POW at FT Delaware, his brother died at Point Lookout, another brother died from wounds recieved at Seven Pines and another died from illness in a field hospital. My GGGrand was the only one to come home from that war. This was common with many families. The biggest problem we who care have now is just fighting to keep any symbol in public view. Maybe educating the clueless and those who haven't really thought of the toll it took on the Southern family would help the cause but I doubt it, given today's PC climate. I do like the idea though. Maybe something can be worked out at a future convention.
Randy, So you're saying they said the Battle Flag was correct and that it should stand for everyone? No seperate distinction for POW/MIA/s? If so, I agree that the Battle Flag was their flag, but there was no Purple Heart or other pin/flag/medal? Seems like there should be some way to recognize them for what they went through. This is what happens when you lose a war. You aren't allowed to honor those who deserve it. That stinks.
the argument at the national convention was that the battle flag was their flag. again you would have had to been there to here the passion in their voices for the battle flag. as a camp commander, i am aurthorized to vote what i feel is in the best interest of my camp. sometimes i go into a convention planning on voting a certain way on a particular matter, but am swayed to vote the other way when arguments for both sides. are presented . the camp that put forth the pow flag, has plans to bring it up again at south carolina in 2010 at our national convention. i like your idea for a pin or medal to hounor our pow's. dont know if that idea has ever been approached. i have pow medal's to honor my three pow's, but they are not official scv medals. ther is an scv camp in texas that sells them along with attractive certificate with therir names on them, the medal and certificate. i may contact the scv national commander, or maybe the men propossing the pow flag, should propose a national scv medal to honor our ancestors.
i just sent an email to the national commander of the scv, charles mcmichael, concerning a national scv medal to honor our pow ancestors. as soon as i get a responce, i will post to the forum.
Thanks Randy. The Battle Flag is an ongoing 'battle' and I don't see it ending. It's amazing to me that this country is just now getting its act together with the Honor Flights to recognize the WWII vets. Some are just now getting honors they deserved years ago. Sadly, many of these are presented to widows or children because the vet is not longer with us. With the textbooks now pretty much starting US History with the Civil Rights movement, it's no real brainer why our children have no clue what their ancestors went through. We have to teach them these facts at home. Just as those who died on the beach at Normandy, the Confederate Soldier was fighting for a reason. They deserve recognition for the horrible things they went through be it as a POW or burial in a mass grave with no headstone. It was bad enough just to fight and live through those years without adding those into the ordeal.
It has occurred to me that if someone was to propose a motion that SHAPE membership vote and adopt this Confederate POW flag to represent the ancestors of SHAPE members who were POWs there would be absolutely no problem. I would second the motion. Please start a new thread for the motion.
i just sent an email to the national commander of the scv, charles mcmichael, concerning a national scv medal to honor our pow ancestors. as soon as i get a responce, i will post to the forum.
randy
I know Chuck,I'll have to ask him about that myself. I'd love to get my G G Grandfather one! I also plan on buying a couple of those Confederate POW-MIA flags myself. I don't see why they can't have thier own. Sure the battle flag is theirs,but it represents every soldier's struggle.I think it's nice to have some special recognition for the POW-MIAs. No reason we can't plant both flags on thier graves.
SHAPE is independent of the SCV. We have voted on and elected this flag to officially represent the SHAPE memberships POW ancestors. We are allowe to post images of that flag to this board fly the flag as part of our heritage displays.
After Lee's birthday, I will add an image to our homepage to sort of make the announcement.
